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Turbo/Supercharger options

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DAVE
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Since this is becoming more frequent I thought I would get a collection of graphs to help members decided which is the best route for them. Not 100% on the car spec for each graph so would be useful if the owners could add to this if I have missed anything out or need correcting.

Also if anyone has a graph to add would be good too, as I know this isnt all of them.

Ian (tiddlewinks) Swift Sport HKS Turbo T25 with 300cc injectors running on HKS F Con. Built by TDi North
Flywheel BHP: 211 & 184lbft Torque @ 4200rpm. Wheel BHP: unknown. Boost: 0.55bar (8psi)
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Andy (Holeinone) Swift Sport Monster Supercharger Ogura TX07 (roots with lodes) on standard injectors running on modified ECU from Monster Sport Japan and built by Monster Sport Milton Keynes
Flywheel BHP: 161 & 155lbft Torque @ 3900rpm. Wheel BHP: unknown. Boost: 0.55bar (7.9psi)
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Mathew (Avit) Swift Sport TTS Supercharger Rotrex C15-60 (similar to Turbo) on 430cc injectors (now changed) running on AEM FIC built by TTS
Flywheel BHP: Unknown. Wheel BHP: 180 & 135lbft Torque @ 6600rpm. Boost:
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Andy (Holeinone) Swift Sport TTS Supercharger Rotrex C15-60 (similar to Turbo) on standard injectors rise and rate regulator and fuel return and Monster Sport cams running on AEM FIC built by TTS (Cams fitted by Monster Sport).
Flywheel BHP: 232 & 221nm Torque @ 7100rpm(163lbft). Wheel BHP: 179
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Dave (djmichie) Swift Sport Greddy Supercharger Eaton MP45 (roots with screws) on 380cc injectors with bigger fuel pump and Greddy cams running on Greddy E-manage Ultimate built by owner (with help from Ian Walley Racing).
Flywheel BHP: 189 & 155lbft Torque @ 3200rpm. Wheel BHP: 157. Boost: 0.77bar (11.1psi)
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DjRS Swift 1.5 Turbo T25 on 430cc injectors with bigger fuel pump and water meth injection running on Greddy E-manage Ultimate.
Flywheel BHP: 212 & 258nm Torque @ 4200rpm(190lbft). Wheel BHP: 138. Boost: 0.8bar (11.6psi)
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Satan Swift Sport Turbo Garret GT25 (unknown if its a 40/60R) on 550cc injectors running on Adaptronic 420e standalone.
Flywheel BHP: unknown Wheel BHP: 178 & 140lbft Torque @ 5000rpm(190nm). Boost: unknown


Most of the graphs converted into come to see the power curves along side each other all converted to flywheel bhp.
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Red = Avit Rotrex
Black = Dave/Kel Greddy Eaton
Blue = Holeinone Monster
Green = Tiddlewinks HKS Turbo
Purple = Satan Custom Garret Turbo

Lee Riley
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Dont have the graph uploaded but sss with hks turbo kit 215hp and 210ft-lb (280ish nm) at 10 psi... cant run any more than that as actuator is too weak. Have an uprated actuator ready to go on when other parts permit and I have money for the map

Swift Sport 60
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Nice info Dave, Its interesting to see where the different chargers make there peak tourque figures. I think i'd go for the Rotrex over the rest due to the ammount of torque and rpm it peaks at as i find myself using mid to high rpm.
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bak2basics
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Again dont have a graph Swift Sport Monster Supercharger Ogura TX07 (Roots) on standard injectors running on Dastek Unichip Piggyback ECU built by Monster Sport Milton Keynes. With Monster Camshafts and Induction kit + Custom Full Exhaust. Flywheel BHP: 174

Ian & christeen
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Nice work Dave, good too see them all together.

Dave Packham
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Again dont have a graph

Swift Sport Monster Supercharger Ogura TX07 (Roots) on standard injectors running on Dastek Unichip Piggyback ECU built by Monster Sport Milton Keynes. With Monster Camshafts and Induction kit + Custom Full Exhaust.
Flywheel BHP: 174

Does Andy not have a Graph from when it was fitted on his car?

Jimbobaroo
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Great thread Dave. Exactly what l was going to ask you guys with turbo's etc, to do after following your other thread and some of the latest issues on it. Make this thread a sticky so it doesn't disappear in the future. :)

Ian & christeen
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We had AEM rising rate regulator & fuel return with Walbro 255lph in tank pump too.

beaumont_swift
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All on standard internals

DAVE
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Yup. Lee Riley is the only person who has gone forged internals. But dont have a graph for his yet and its not quite ready.

Lee Riley
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Engine is ready and car is being driven, on a multi plate clutch currently which arrrived yesterday courtesy of coordsport untill a clutch that can take the torque is available which shouldnt be long, so need to say thanks to coordsport as without their help I wouldnt be this far with the clutch situation. Have sorted the cutting out issue after boost too, all that needs doing now is geometry etc which im doing wed and I need to rebuild the dumpvalve to as it doesnt seem to be working right. Getting a 2.5icnh turbo back exhaust made on the cheap at some point and then will be fitting the bigger actuator. I am going to fit exhaust an actuator at same time as clutch and a wideband then send it to mapped again so just waiting to finish uni to be able to earn some money to pay for it all. The car has been perfect apart from two things which have been clutch not handling the torque and the stalling after boost whcih I have now sorted and the clutch issue will be resolved shortly! Thanks again to everyone at coordsport I cant stress enough how grateful I am and how much they have helped me sourcing parts etc and would recommened them to anyone! Gav has seen the graph and that was the last time I saw it as I have lost it, I will try and get one printed off again from interpro or just wait untill I have it mapped again but it was 215hp at something like 6600 and 211ft/lb but cant remember what that was at

satan
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What multiplication factor are you using to get from "At The Wheels" to "At The Flywheel" figures? It would be good to see them all from the same point, either wheels or flywheel. Dave, I noticed your "At The Flywheel" figures are roughly between 20-21% higher than the "At The Wheels" figures. Is it safe to multiply all the "At The Wheels" graphs by 20% to get a comparable flywheel outputs?

DAVE
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I took the figures from the grpahs themselves I havnt done any calculations, main reason it may upset members,as if I did the 20% factor it would mean most the other graphs have alot lower bhp at the flywheel. Dyno Dynamics is really the only Dyno I trust but I am not going to get into that debate.

satan
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I understaqnd what youre saying. The torque gets measured at the wheels by applying load to the rollers on the dyno. From there they can calculate the bhp by relating the torgue to speed (rpm) and so a flywheel bhp figure must be a multiplication of the at the wheels figure to allow for drive train loss. So if your figures show a 20% multiplication factor for drivetrain loss from the wheels to the flywheel, it should be pretty much the same across the board? So by multiplying all the "at the wheels" figures by 20% like your comparitive graphs, we should get comparative flyweel figures?

satan
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I have looked at a few and they seem to be all over the place in the difference from flywheel to wheel figures. Holeinone is about 30% increase, Daves about 20% and Djrs is about 53% increase from wheels to flywheel, can that be right? Tyre diameter would influence the flywheel figures, so maybe include a tyre size? Also, the facelifted Sports had a different diff ratio to the earlier ones so will give inflated bhp figures. So maybe a note of year or pre and post facelift?

DAVE
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No it cant be right... Which is why i always take dyno results with a pinch of salt. Unless stating wheel horse power. Wheel size and gear ratios dont actually matter. Because the machine used doesnt know which size of wheel or gear ratio its in. It measures power and torque being applied. Not speed. I have a dyno from mine when i was running less power.. 140 wheel hp. But the dyno said i ran 193... Then 180 with the same wheel hp... This is what i would class as a rubbish rolling road. Other than that once. I have always used dyno dynamics.

Ian & christeen
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I would say on average a swift seems to lose approximately 30bhp through the transmission.

Engo003
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I have a simple question, why do people turbo/supercharge the 1.5 and not the Sport?

MrCypher
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They do and have turb/sup ch the sport, super charger is easier on sport as theres is much less work involved to get it run correct. :) ill let everyone who knows what there on with tell u in detail

Swift Justice
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yeah i wish people would get used to quoting whp.

wheel size and gear ratio do make a difference. runs are usually done in the gear where the ratio is closest to 1:1, 4th gear in a 5sp but you can drop down to 3rd if thats too fast.

tiddlewinks, youre right that the multiplication factor shouldnt really be a multiplication, i mean a %. most accurate methond ive found is x1.1 +10 from whp to fwhp and /1.1 -10 the other way.

engo, the 1.5 has a lower compression ratio so in that way its better suited to forced induction.

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